WEBVTT

NOTE Machine-generated transcript; not human-reviewed.
NOTE Canonical transcript: https://opentheory.net/transcripts/catalog-navigate-consciousness/

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Boom! What's up everyone? Welcome to Simulation. I'm your host, Alan Sakian. Really excited to be talking about cataloging and navigating consciousness. We have the Qualia Research Institute team joining us. Hello guys.

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Hello.

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Hi, Alan.

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Hello everyone. Hello. Welcome back. This is our third episode of the Qualia Research

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Institute. Very excited. You guys are doing some of the most important work in neuroscience

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and consciousness today and I'm very excited to have you guys back. This time we have Romeo

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joining us as well. Very excited to have you on. And we have Kenneth and Quintin joining

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us as well. Hello, hello. And Andrés and Mike, of course, from the previous episodes

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as you guys know. All right. So let's jump into things with understanding what it means

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to even explore the state-space of consciousness in the first place, to see this beautiful

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catalog of what is possible with state-spaces of consciousness. We have great graphics as

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we go through.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, well, this graphic is actually pretty illustrative. So that's what's

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called the color space, CLM specifically. So basically what you can do is use combinations

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of lights, like for example, you know, a red, a green, blue light, and then you can see

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with different like amplitudes, different energies, and see basically how much you need

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to change the lights for a person to experience what's called a just noticeable difference

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in their experience of color. Right. So it's kind of you're comparing two side by side

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two colors and it's like, are they exactly the same or they're subtly different? And

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if they're subtly different, you count that as a unit, a unit of a just noticeable difference.

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And you start using that as your ruler. It's kind of like, oh, you use the just noticeable

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difference as kind of a ruler and you start to kind of like pin all of the values of

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experience that way. In the case of color, you end up with that three-dimensional space.

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Basically has three dimensions. It has the blue, yellow axis, the red, green axis, and

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it has like the brighter and darker axis. And it's fabulous that it turns out to be

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a Euclidean 3D space. It could have been different. The paradigm doesn't impose a Euclidean geometry

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to it. The Euclidean property seems to be kind of an intrinsic feature of the state

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of color. But this is just with color. In principle, you can do these with flavors and

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smells and sense of touch and emotions. And you can basically generalize it in order to

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make a map of all types of Aquileia varieties. Basically, Aquileia variety is a type of Aquileia,

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type of consciousness. Or like, for example, Aquileia variety could be the variety of color.

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These would be the state space of color. You could also have the state space of emotions

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and sense and textures. And I think the next slide actually might be a good example of

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the state space of emotions. You try to kind of map them out.

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Grief, sadness, interest, optimism, ecstasy, love.

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And I mean, they're all related in interesting ways. And the question is, how do you put

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them in a map so that their relationships, their relationships, their relationships,

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in how they feel are, in a sense, encoded in the geometry of that map?

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Yes.

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I mean, as I said, like in the case of color, you can have a 3D Euclidean space. For

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emotion is more complicated. You may need something like a hyperbolic space. You can

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get away with Euclidean space for some things, but not for everything.

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Okay. So let's start unpacking this. So one of the things that I think is really relatable

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right there off the bat is when we see color.

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So we see

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one shade of blue and then we just suppose it with another shade of blue. And we don't,

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let's say if it's no units of difference, then we believe that the state space of consciousness

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is the same if it's no units of difference. But if there is a single unit of difference

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or 10 units of difference, which you're trying to measure with like this ruler that you're

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describing in the space, then you could say that the state space of consciousness changes

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in the mind.

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Is there then a, if you move only one unit versus if you move 10 units, would there be

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a more subtle, smaller change for one unit and a little bit bigger change in the state

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space for?

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Yeah, I would, kind of like word it as by changing your consciousness, you're accessing

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different regions of the state space of consciousness.

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In some sense, the state space of consciousness never changes.

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It just is.

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It's kind of like the universal map of all possible experiences.

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But yeah, if you just take your experience and you just modify one

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So, you take your shade of color in one piece of your visual field. That would be making one step in that very high dimensional state space of consciousness.

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You can do much more radical transformations, of course, if you change the entirety of your visual field or you change your experience or state of consciousness, you would be moving much further.

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But in a sense, the state space of consciousness never changes. It's a feature of the universe.

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Okay, yes. And then, now, we gave the example of color as part of a visual input stream.

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Then we started giving this massive amount of emotions that different people can feel.

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There's so many other ones of these. So, scent is another one. So, you have to catalog the state space for scent.

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Then catalog the state space for taste, and for touch, and for audio, and for all these emotions and visions that we talked about.

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And then, if someone is experiencing two of these different, maybe a visual and an auditory, or a visual and a taste at the same time,

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I mean, this gets super complicated super quick with the state space of consciousness.

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So, you like to silo off the state space of consciousness for all these different sensory inputs,

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and then you also try and figure out when two of them work together or when four of them work together.

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Yeah, no, it's what you might be calling a combinatorial explosion.

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Assuming that you're in a state of consciousness, you're in a state of consciousness, and you're in a state of consciousness,

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as soon as you start introducing more qualia varieties.

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And yeah, the truth seems to be that there's some constraints between them.

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But they're definitely not intuitive.

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You definitely have people with synesthesia, for example, who naturally are able to bind together,

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for example, sensations of sound together with sensations of color, which is something that most people can't.

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And that is also a component of the state space of consciousness,

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is which of the qualia varieties can be bound together in your experience.

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And that's another kind of like area to explore.

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Like basically, what is the space of possible ways of binding different qualia varieties?

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I mean, we humans are kind of have a natural or like a typical way of binding it, which seems to be evolutionarily advantageous.

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But in some sense, we could say that we are all synesthetic.

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It's just that we are basically experiencing an evolutionarily advantageous type of synesthesia.

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And then is within...

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If we can get at least, I think,

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more people to try to be aware of how a different stimuli is then causing them to have a specific state space of consciousness.

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So as long as we're becoming more conscious of, okay, a certain stimuli is a certain state space of consciousness.

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You know, when I feel good, it's a certain way.

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When I feel bad, it's something else's state space here.

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When I see blue, certain thing.

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When I see red, certain thing.

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When I smell something, certain thing.

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So if you can at least start getting people to become more conscious of that, I think that gets the catalog more and more.

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And then do we have another asset with this?

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I mean, that gets into the navigation.

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Okay, let's...

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Beautiful.

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Let's shift right into navigation then.

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So we explained the catalog.

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So let's talk about navigating between...

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Because usually it's kind of like we're just going through and then all of a sudden we become happier or we smell something or we taste something.

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I'll just briefly mention this slide and then somebody else should jump in.

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But it's a...

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What that slide represents...

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Just talk about it.

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Yeah, yeah.

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It's the...

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This is from research I did in grad school, which was mapping out the transition probability between different emotions.

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So we took like 170 emotions and we tracked, you know, massive amounts of people.

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We ended up having like more than a million data points about how people transition from one emotion to the next.

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Yes.

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Like given your sequence of previous emotions, what other emotion you're likely to go to in the future.

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And with this kind of map, you find fascinating features of the navigation space because it turns out that there's, for example, these gateway emotions.

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Like, for example, feeling hopeful, feeling relieved.

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Those are like...

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It's not just kind of the sensation of a good or like your positive valence.

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If you feel hopeful or you feel relieved, that's a lot of information about where you were in the past.

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And where you're moving towards.

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So there's kind of like all of these topology as well of the gateways emotions, attractor emotions, emotions that basically are reflectors that they don't...

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For example, feeling tired.

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It doesn't matter in what region of the state space of consciousness you are, what emotions you were in.

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Most people feel tired at some point in the day.

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Not everybody, but most people.

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Tired is not a very high information emotion, but hopefulness is a very high information emotion.

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It tells you a lot about the trajectory of the person.

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Whoa.

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Yeah.

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This is huge.

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So it's harder to get from something that's like an edge point past like cheerfulness or excitedness to something that's like annoyed

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So, it's harder to get from edge point to edge point because usually you have to go through these main center gateway points.

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Yes.

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Then you can gain more information from certain points about trajectory and paths than you

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can about other ones.

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It's kind of like a map of how to navigate it too.

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Yeah, it's like if you want to go to a very different emotion, you know, it's like what

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– you know, empirically, what is like the typical transitions between emotions that

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will get you there.

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Yeah, that's cool.

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It's also very important to note that some of these experiences, some of these emotions

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are more pleasant than others by far.

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And part of navigation or part of sort of mapping is understanding this and understanding

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that a good map tells you where the good places to go are as well.

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In the Middle Ages, allegedly, this might be the Middle Ages.

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True or just a story.

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But in these old maps, they had marked, here be dragons, where people went and didn't

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come back from or there were big troubles.

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And this is, I mean, yeah, in terms of mapping consciousness, we are absolutely in the early

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days here.

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But yeah, there are bad places.

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And we need navigational principles in order to understand where not to go.

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And I feel that's a core part of this research.

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There be dragons in anxiety and depression and suicide.

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Yep.

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There be dragons.

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There be evil forces.

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So how do we avoid or kill the dragons?

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How do we navigate away from that state space?

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Yeah.

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by cataloging and then helping people move with little dissonance in

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directions. Okay, other thoughts on navigation from you guys?

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Yes, as Mike was alluding to, I think that having a map of the state space of

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consciousness also allows us to compare experiences in terms of their valence.

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So like for example, one of the worst experiences known to humans is a cluster

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headache, which is an extremely, extremely severe headache, often rated a 10 out of

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10. So being able to quantify the negative valence associated with those

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kinds of experiences and comparing them to others allows us to determine which

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experiences are the ones that we want to avert the most.

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Yeah, and I think that it also allows us on the other side of the equation to say

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there are probably states of consciousness which no one has ever experienced over

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the course of human history, which would be really great to explore.

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Right.

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And having this map would allow us to, in a principled way, sort of know what

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direction we're going in, have a north star of positive valence. And yeah, I think that's

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like something that we could definitely explore further too.

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Damn, yeah, from the worst headaches in the world to those states of consciousness

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that have not even been explored that are extremely positive.

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Yeah, and there may be a very simple set of equations that describe how to get

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from between those two points.

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Yeah, just in general.

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A lot is at stake in figuring this out.

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Yeah.

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For, and hopefully in forms that are decentralized, open source, and loving, compassionate ways

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and not overly manipulative, corrupt ways.

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Yeah.

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Romeo, thoughts on catalog and navigating?

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Feeling good?

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They covered it.

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Yeah.

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All right, beautiful. So what does it mean to have no dissonance in between the

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navigation of the state space of consciousness?

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So this leads into this theory of emotional valence, this theory of what makes an experience

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good and what makes an experience bad. And so, QRI's hypothesis here is called the asymmetry

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And it's this idea that if we have a mathematical representation of what it feels like to be

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you, Alan, or what it feels like to be me, Mike, that if we, the pleasantness or unpleasantness

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of that experience should somehow be encoded into this mathematical object, this mathematical

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representation. And we believe the encoding is in this object's symmetry. So, we're going

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more symmetrical with the states of consciousness that are really pleasurable and less symmetrical with the headache.

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Yes, yes. And a kind of a simple way to put this is harmony in the brain feels good, dissonance in the brain feels bad.

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And is this true that the extreme headache states are like extremely dissonant?

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That's a hypothesis. I mean there's a kind of like a lot of like lines of evidence pointing towards it.

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Not specifically for cluster headaches that hasn't been studied in that way.

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But when it comes to like all sorts of perceptual artifacts that come from like negative states of consciousness and how to induce them.

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Yeah, there's kind of a suggestion that it has to do with this concept of like roughness and dissonance.

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We actually have an example over there.

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Okay, the next.

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Oh, this one. Yeah, yeah.

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So yeah, well, if you look at the spectrum, there's a spectrum picture right, yes, that one.

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Okay.

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That's the spectrum of the BART. I think, I believe like between 24th Street and Mission and Balboa Park.

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One of the most unpleasant sounds known to man.

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Oh, it's the high-pitched screeching noise when the…

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Yeah. And it's kind of high-pitched.

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I mean it really has like…

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It's horrible component between like…

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Yeah.

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…like 400 hertz and 500 hertz with some like upper registers as well of dissonance.

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But yeah, I think it's being played at different…

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Yeah.

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Oh, I'm not playing it. Yeah.

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It's already…

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Can you hear it?

224
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No.

225
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We can hear it a little bit.

226
00:16:39.380 --> 00:16:44.060
Yeah, yeah. But it's good. It's good. I think you played the bad part. I think we're good. Thank you.

227
00:16:44.180 --> 00:16:44.400
Yeah.

228
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So it's a very straightforward example of how…

229
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Mm-hmm.

230
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…like a physical process that almost maximizes roughness can really harsh your mellow.

231
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I mean it can…

232
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I mean it's really a boss kill to be in the BART.

233
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Yeah.

234
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Like you're having fun with your friends and all of a sudden it's like…

235
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Yeah, incredible…

236
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And you know a lot of people would be very puzzled about like, hey, like why is this so bad?

237
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And that's like something that we are trying to answer.

238
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We're being… developing basically algorithms that can take sounds like that and say, yeah, that's really horny.

239
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for a number of good reasons, having to do

240
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with the mathematical roughness of it, the lack of invariance and symmetry.

241
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And I would add that hacking your emotions through sound

242
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is one of the most straightforward ways,

243
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mostly because the number of pre-processing steps

244
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between auditory stimuli and brain state are very few,

245
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as opposed to, for example, pre-processing between visual stimuli and brain state.

246
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So auditory stimuli, the shape of it,

247
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is going to be very related to the actual shape of the brain state

248
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that is triggered by it.

249
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So in a sense, the structure of a sound is going to be a window

250
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into how it's going to affect the structure of your brain state.

251
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You can tell a lot about what brain states are good or bad

252
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based on the structure of the sound that triggers good or bad feelings.

253
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Okay, and then what would then,

254
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if this is on the side of extreme dissonance,

255
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and you could be in a very symmetrical state

256
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and then experience...

257
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super dissonance, and then that,

258
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you could map how that actually affects someone's state-space consciousness,

259
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what would be an example of the most symmetrical states?

260
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Well, in music, there's definitely a lot of examples.

261
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I mean, not to sound all new age, but Enya, for example,

262
00:18:41.520 --> 00:18:45.520
if you run it through the sort of software we're developing,

263
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it comes out as very, very, very consonant,

264
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very, very, very symmetrical over time.

265
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I mean, like the sound,

266
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the engineering involved in Enya songs

267
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is kind of really hitting the spot

268
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when it comes to maximizing consonants

269
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and all of these reverb effects as well.

270
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Enya.

271
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Enya, yeah.

272
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N-E-N-Y-A.

273
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E-N-Y-A.

274
00:19:08.900 --> 00:19:09.340
Yes.

275
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Enya.

276
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You've never heard of Enya?

277
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Enya.

278
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A boy's got to dive into other state-spaces of consciousness.

279
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Obviously.

280
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But, I mean, for example, Buddhist singing bowls.

281
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As well.

282
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Those are like highly, highly consonant.

283
00:19:25.080 --> 00:19:25.600
Oh, yeah.

284
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You can realize them.

285
00:19:26.140 --> 00:19:26.300
Yeah.

286
00:19:26.740 --> 00:19:30.380
And generally speaking, the chorus part of songs

287
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tends to be very much in the direction of very high consonants.

288
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Which is kind of like the part that tends to be the most hedonic of a song.

289
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The reason why songs are not just chorus is because they would get boring.

290
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And basically if you trigger boredom,

291
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then that will itself cause a little bit of dissonance.

292
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You will fail to appreciate it.

293
00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:52.320
But if it's like dosed high amounts of consonants,

294
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like...

295
00:19:53.600 --> 00:19:54.800
then you can really get into it.

296
00:19:54.880 --> 00:19:56.060
Okay, interesting.

297
00:19:57.840 --> 00:19:59.380
And just to set the frame,

298
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:24.360
we're working on ways to evaluate the consonants, the harmony in sounds, as well as the dissonance, with the eye toward if we can do it to sounds, there is also a method to do it to brains, to actually evaluate in a precise mathematical sense how much harmony is in a brain state.

299
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:34.860
And you could hypothetically imagine a world in which the bar would sound very consonant if you properly employed some of these algorithms that you're developing.

300
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I think kind of an important question here that a lot of people ask, similarly to can we feel good all the time, is well if we need these, if we only have these pockets of consonants in popular music,

301
00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:54.340
is it required for us to have the dissonance in between those pockets of consonants in order for the sound to be heard?

302
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Or is it required for the sound to be pleasurable?

303
00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:01.660
And our contention is that you don't necessarily have to employ dissonance in order to achieve contrast.

304
00:21:02.580 --> 00:21:11.080
And so I think that's an important thing for people to understand too, is that you don't necessarily have to suffer in order to appreciate the contrast of feeling good.

305
00:21:11.220 --> 00:21:16.820
You can sort of start at zero and go to infinity rather than having negative infinity to positive infinity.

306
00:21:20.300 --> 00:21:22.420
That one's really important.

307
00:21:22.520 --> 00:21:24.340
Actually, one of the, I think, things that I've learned in my career is that, you know,

308
00:21:24.360 --> 00:21:38.620
one of the things that has been in debate in the last couple of years with our friends has been that do we really need to experience suffering in order to understand what is on the positive infinity side of things

309
00:21:38.620 --> 00:21:44.100
to be able to actually have something to contrast it with, to be grateful for and stuff?

310
00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:49.840
And potentially one of the hypotheses is that we don't, that there's so many other things.

311
00:21:51.100 --> 00:21:51.400
Yeah.

312
00:21:51.540 --> 00:21:54.340
The frame I would offer is that in parallel,

313
00:21:54.360 --> 00:22:09.880
theoretically human brains seem to kind of be built this way, that we tend to oscillate between suffering and pleasure and there does seem to be some useful thing we as humans get from that.

314
00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:18.920
But it doesn't seem to be a law of the universe that you have to suffer to feel good, that there is this hedonic balance.

315
00:22:19.480 --> 00:22:24.340
And presumably we could, if we're really paying attention to this, we could all be very happy with what we're doing.

316
00:22:24.360 --> 00:22:30.940
making a new organism from scratch, we wouldn't have to program in that the

317
00:22:30.940 --> 00:22:37.140
organism would have to suffer. Okay, and let's on a little bit more on this

318
00:22:37.140 --> 00:22:44.120
symmetry theory of valence, let's explain more about how exactly we can do things

319
00:22:44.120 --> 00:22:52.260
like potentially having a mathematical representation of a state space of

320
00:22:52.260 --> 00:22:56.180
consciousness that is symmetrical. Yeah, I think the next slide potentially.

321
00:22:58.320 --> 00:23:04.500
Maybe that's this one. Yeah, well this kind of like illustrates, well it's

322
00:23:04.500 --> 00:23:12.440
meant to be a video, but otherwise. Okay, no problem. Okay, it's going. Oh sweet. Yeah, so

323
00:23:12.440 --> 00:23:17.340
those are the harmonic states of a plate. This is called a Chladni plate.

324
00:23:17.500 --> 00:23:22.140
Basically, if you make it vibrate with like a speaker,

325
00:23:22.220 --> 00:23:22.240
you can see that it vibrates with like a speaker. So, if you make it vibrate with like a speaker,

326
00:23:22.260 --> 00:23:25.780
for example, at a certain frequency. Cymatics. Yeah, cymatics, exactly. It's

327
00:23:25.780 --> 00:23:30.780
gonna basically lock in into a nearby resonant mode. And the really cool thing

328
00:23:30.780 --> 00:23:34.660
is that there's only an integer number of possible resonant modes. There's

329
00:23:34.660 --> 00:23:40.160
not an infinite number of shapes you can make. And the reason why is that there's

330
00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:44.980
only a certain number of ways in which kind of this mechanical wave can fit an

331
00:23:44.980 --> 00:23:50.260
integer number of times in the shape of the plate. So, in a sense, you can like

332
00:23:50.260 --> 00:23:52.200
discretize. This is already

333
00:23:52.260 --> 00:24:00.380
getting very technical. Okay. Okay, so we're saying that the amount of symmetrical

334
00:24:00.380 --> 00:24:07.360
states are limited? The number of resonant modes. Resonant modes are limited. And at

335
00:24:07.360 --> 00:24:13.940
any given point in time, you're experiencing a weighted sum of many resonant modes.

336
00:24:14.260 --> 00:24:22.240
Okay. Basically, the vision is the equations that tell you what shapes form on a plate.

337
00:24:22.260 --> 00:24:30.000
On this plate, so you basically sprinkle salt or sugar on these glad link plates, and

338
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:36.560
then you can kind of visualize the waves. And the same equations, which predict the

339
00:24:36.560 --> 00:24:41.860
shapes at different frequencies, are the same equations we're applying to the brain.

340
00:24:42.040 --> 00:24:48.380
Okay, so if I'm at 345 hertz, and that's making a symmetrical state for me, that may

341
00:24:48.380 --> 00:24:52.240
be through a process of something like I'm meditating, or I'm, let's say, I'm

342
00:24:52.260 --> 00:24:57.300
experiencing a form of symmetry of flow state, or listening to the course of the music, or

343
00:24:57.300 --> 00:25:00.000
whatever it may be. Right. And so then the

344
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:05.000
same way that you visualize salt or sugar in a symmetrical state on the

345
00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:09.360
could be the same way that that same mathematical equation could be of what.

346
00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:11.540
And so I'm trying to keep that state.

347
00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:17.040
I'm trying to hold on when people get lost in their flow state or deep in their meditation

348
00:25:17.040 --> 00:25:19.680
that they're just extending and extending that period.

349
00:25:19.800 --> 00:25:25.500
And then so they've basically been having that same equation happen for a period of

350
00:25:25.500 --> 00:25:26.400
time.

351
00:25:26.780 --> 00:25:27.300
Right.

352
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:33.020
And so in a sense it's kind of like the higher the valence, which is the more pleasant the

353
00:25:33.020 --> 00:25:33.700
state is.

354
00:25:33.880 --> 00:25:36.740
It's kind of like a function of the total consonants.

355
00:25:36.860 --> 00:25:40.920
Like it's basically the way in which those harmonics are interacting together.

356
00:25:41.460 --> 00:25:46.880
Are they interfering in a positive way or are they interfering in a destructive way?

357
00:25:47.040 --> 00:25:53.280
And one key there is that in a sense like the richness of your experience would have

358
00:25:53.280 --> 00:25:56.300
to do with how many of those harmonics you're able to fit in a consonant way.

359
00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:02.680
So you're just hearing a melody played with like two or three notes in a piano versus

360
00:26:02.680 --> 00:26:03.400
a whole orchestra.

361
00:26:04.040 --> 00:26:10.100
And there's like a whole art and science to how to fit a whole orchestra of instruments

362
00:26:10.520 --> 00:26:11.700
into something that sounds good.

363
00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:15.480
When you have like all of these different frequency channels and different timbers and

364
00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:17.000
different ways of softening the sound.

365
00:26:17.180 --> 00:26:23.780
And likewise, like a peak experience is not just necessarily a pure, simple, you know,

366
00:26:23.780 --> 00:26:24.560
resonant mode.

367
00:26:24.660 --> 00:26:27.980
There's more kind of this assembly of resonant modes that fit in a different way.

368
00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:35.160
And this would look a little more scattered if it was in a dissonant state.

369
00:26:35.300 --> 00:26:36.880
There wouldn't be any symmetry that .

370
00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:37.140
Right.

371
00:26:37.160 --> 00:26:37.560
Rough.

372
00:26:37.720 --> 00:26:40.840
It would look rough, unbalanced and constantly changing.

373
00:26:41.500 --> 00:26:41.940
Okay.

374
00:26:42.140 --> 00:26:45.340
And yeah, just to offer a little context here.

375
00:26:45.540 --> 00:26:46.460
So that's what suffering is.

376
00:26:46.540 --> 00:26:48.520
Rough, unbalanced and constantly changing.

377
00:26:48.600 --> 00:26:48.800
Yeah.

378
00:26:48.800 --> 00:26:49.580
Kind of like turbulence.

379
00:26:49.820 --> 00:26:50.060
Yeah.

380
00:26:50.140 --> 00:26:51.240
Kind of like turbulence.

381
00:26:51.600 --> 00:26:52.040
Turbulence.

382
00:26:52.060 --> 00:26:52.300
Oh.

383
00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:52.880
Yeah.

384
00:26:52.980 --> 00:26:54.440
Turbulence is a good metaphor for this.

385
00:26:54.900 --> 00:26:55.340
Yeah.

386
00:26:58.000 --> 00:26:59.240
as suffering in his world.

387
00:26:59.720 --> 00:27:02.440
And just to offer some context here,

388
00:27:02.540 --> 00:27:05.660
this is based off the work of a neuroscientist

389
00:27:05.960 --> 00:27:08.240
by the name of Selin Atasoy.

390
00:27:08.840 --> 00:27:09.960
She's at Oxford.

391
00:27:10.120 --> 00:27:15.700
And the paradigm is called connectome-specific harmonic

392
00:27:15.700 --> 00:27:16.280
waves.

393
00:27:16.520 --> 00:27:21.900
And it's a way of interpreting neuroimaging,

394
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:25.440
existing techniques, fMRI, DTI, MRI,

395
00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:28.740
MRI, and adding it together to figure out

396
00:27:28.740 --> 00:27:30.980
the brain's natural resonances.

397
00:27:31.060 --> 00:27:34.060
Just like a guitar or a piano or a wine glass

398
00:27:34.060 --> 00:27:35.840
has these natural resonances.

399
00:27:36.080 --> 00:27:40.340
This is a way of measuring them in a brain.

400
00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:43.700
And what we're doing is we're building on top of this,

401
00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:49.340
analyzing this data for harmony, basically.

402
00:27:49.760 --> 00:27:53.840
And then the idea is then that if you can then

403
00:27:54.540 --> 00:27:55.420
start doing things.

404
00:27:55.440 --> 00:28:00.460
If you can start doing things like conducting fMRI scans

405
00:28:00.460 --> 00:28:03.120
of symmetrical states of consciousness,

406
00:28:03.420 --> 00:28:06.200
then you can start cataloging.

407
00:28:06.340 --> 00:28:08.520
And when you can start cataloging,

408
00:28:08.520 --> 00:28:12.740
and you can make that beautiful representation, then it's, yeah.

409
00:28:12.980 --> 00:28:13.180
Sure.

410
00:28:13.400 --> 00:28:17.160
I mean, I think one very, very important frame here

411
00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:20.360
is what you can measure, you can manage.

412
00:28:21.740 --> 00:28:25.120
And if this is a tight proxy for how

413
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:30.180
pleasant a brain state is, then it lets us understand

414
00:28:31.480 --> 00:28:36.100
if a brain, if a person is in pain, if they are suffering.

415
00:28:36.940 --> 00:28:41.160
It allows us to pinpoint where is this suffering coming from?

416
00:28:41.480 --> 00:28:45.220
Because we can look at the mathematics of the frequencies

417
00:28:45.780 --> 00:28:50.260
and the dissonance and say, oh, it's this specific harmonic.

418
00:28:51.540 --> 00:28:55.340
It's the frequency has drifted, or it's oscillating,

419
00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:57.000
in a strange way, or whatnot.

420
00:28:57.340 --> 00:29:03.140
And it allows us to calculate the turbulence that's occurring.

421
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:04.140
Right, right.

422
00:29:04.260 --> 00:29:06.740
And figure out how to fix it, basically.

423
00:29:07.860 --> 00:29:08.260
OK.

424
00:29:08.780 --> 00:29:09.780
And yeah, go ahead.

425
00:29:09.920 --> 00:29:10.160
Yeah, sure.

426
00:29:10.220 --> 00:29:11.780
I was just going to mention, we've

427
00:29:11.780 --> 00:29:13.060
talked a lot about human brains here.

428
00:29:13.240 --> 00:29:16.500
But this paradigm could also be applied to non-human animals

429
00:29:16.500 --> 00:29:16.860
as well.

430
00:29:17.220 --> 00:29:19.560
And it could be a really interesting way

431
00:29:19.560 --> 00:29:24.200
to directly scientifically determine whether or not

432
00:29:24.200 --> 00:29:24.940
animals are suffering.

433
00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:26.640
Because I think that is a question that

434
00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:27.680
is on a lot of people's minds.

435
00:29:27.880 --> 00:29:29.220
And there are some people who think

436
00:29:29.220 --> 00:29:31.700
that non-human animals are not capable of suffering.

437
00:29:31.880 --> 00:29:33.260
And this might be a way to determine

438
00:29:33.260 --> 00:29:34.320
that they actually are.

439
00:29:35.280 --> 00:29:37.580
And even further in the future, maybe it's

440
00:29:37.580 --> 00:29:40.760
something that could be used on other types of brains,

441
00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:42.520
on artificial intelligence, for example,

442
00:29:42.520 --> 00:29:45.500
to determine what state is that AI in,

443
00:29:45.600 --> 00:29:46.940
or what state is this animal in?

444
00:29:47.040 --> 00:29:49.860
And how do we fix that for them in addition to ourselves?

445
00:29:51.860 --> 00:29:52.500
Yeah, yeah.

446
00:29:52.560 --> 00:29:54.980
There's also even the pull, even like a plant.

447
00:29:55.140 --> 00:29:55.420
Yeah.

448
00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:59.340
If the plant is having insects eat it

449
00:29:59.340 --> 00:29:59.980
or isn't having

450
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:06.540
the right nutrients in the soil or sunlight and starting to die, I mean, is that then an expression of consciousness dying?

451
00:30:06.820 --> 00:30:08.680
Hard to say at this point.

452
00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:09.960
Hard to say at this point, yeah, yeah.

453
00:30:10.600 --> 00:30:12.700
All the way up to the AI, yeah.

454
00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:25.240
This method could be applied to literally any organism with neurons, assuming that there's some proxy relationships.

455
00:30:25.240 --> 00:30:27.720
And plants have only cells.

456
00:30:28.100 --> 00:30:29.160
They don't have neurons.

457
00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:34.460
Plants have only cells, but you can see a stress response happening in the plant when it gets...

458
00:30:34.460 --> 00:30:34.620
Yeah.

459
00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:42.260
Not to get too academic here, but I'll just throw this.

460
00:30:42.340 --> 00:30:43.820
This is not necessarily a QRI line.

461
00:30:43.940 --> 00:30:47.900
This is more an argument by David Pierce we've talked briefly about.

462
00:30:48.020 --> 00:30:51.500
But one reason why plants are not as...

463
00:30:51.500 --> 00:30:52.280
I mean, they could be conscious.

464
00:30:52.360 --> 00:30:52.760
We don't know.

465
00:30:53.480 --> 00:30:55.080
But definitely there's the...

466
00:30:55.880 --> 00:31:01.720
Purely physiological component that the cells are divided by thick cellulose walls.

467
00:31:02.300 --> 00:31:13.000
So, whatever is the mechanism of action for binding, for neurons actually talking to each other and being able to synchronize with each other, that doesn't seem physically possible between the cells of a plant.

468
00:31:13.220 --> 00:31:13.420
Okay.

469
00:31:13.560 --> 00:31:14.400
But who knows?

470
00:31:14.540 --> 00:31:14.800
Okay.

471
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:23.760
So, it's potentially how neurons are able to communicate with each other with more thin, the transmitters, that type of transmission that makes it...

472
00:31:23.760 --> 00:31:23.980
Yeah.

473
00:31:25.240 --> 00:31:26.240
It's just the loss of plant cells.

474
00:31:26.460 --> 00:31:26.960
Okay.

475
00:31:27.080 --> 00:31:30.940
So, on the nonhuman animal aspect, that's...

476
00:31:30.940 --> 00:31:37.960
In humans, we see there's this strong factor of default hedonic setpoint.

477
00:31:38.220 --> 00:31:42.400
Some people go through life just happier than others.

478
00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:44.860
Some people have very high hedonic setpoint.

479
00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:46.600
Some people have very low hedonic setpoint.

480
00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:51.020
And this is very interesting.

481
00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:54.780
But even within humans, you find...

482
00:31:55.240 --> 00:31:58.140
an enormous range of hedonic set points.

483
00:31:59.220 --> 00:32:01.600
And it's interesting to think about

484
00:32:01.600 --> 00:32:05.540
if you see this amount of variance within humans,

485
00:32:05.740 --> 00:32:09.220
how much variance will there be between species?

486
00:32:10.740 --> 00:32:16.160
And maybe it turns out it's just pretty fantastic to be a dog.

487
00:32:16.340 --> 00:32:19.080
Yeah, or dolphins are just constantly ecstatic.

488
00:32:19.160 --> 00:32:19.720
Right.

489
00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:26.320
And maybe it's just terrible to be a giraffe or a mouse.

490
00:32:26.540 --> 00:32:30.800
Yeah, someone that's constantly in fear of being consumed by another animal.

491
00:32:31.100 --> 00:32:31.940
Yeah, something like that.

492
00:32:32.180 --> 00:32:36.140
So in the sense it could move the whole field

493
00:32:36.140 --> 00:32:40.760
of understanding non-human sentience,

494
00:32:40.940 --> 00:32:43.300
or non-human, I guess, wild animal suffering,

495
00:32:43.500 --> 00:32:47.620
or whatnot, to a more quantitative basis.

496
00:32:47.920 --> 00:32:49.640
Yeah, to be able to say that,

497
00:32:49.720 --> 00:32:52.340
that specific animal has a tendency

498
00:32:52.340 --> 00:32:54.700
to move towards specific states, spaces of consciousness,

499
00:32:54.940 --> 00:32:56.620
and other ones have different tendencies.

500
00:32:56.920 --> 00:32:58.260
That's really cool stuff, too.

501
00:32:58.880 --> 00:33:01.760
Now, so people need to help fund you guys

502
00:33:01.760 --> 00:33:05.040
so you can do the fMRI scans of symmetry and dissonance.

503
00:33:05.160 --> 00:33:07.160
That's the next, that's the big stuff.

504
00:33:07.420 --> 00:33:07.740
That's right.

505
00:33:07.900 --> 00:33:10.360
Yeah, that's what we would describe it

506
00:33:10.360 --> 00:33:13.580
as kind of a very high information experiment.

507
00:33:15.060 --> 00:33:17.040
I mean, we are currently collecting

508
00:33:17.520 --> 00:33:19.060
what you might describe as kind of like

509
00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:21.740
low information or medium information experiments,

510
00:33:22.700 --> 00:33:24.760
which in a sense, like they add up.

511
00:33:24.900 --> 00:33:27.300
And of course, if you have enough weak evidence,

512
00:33:27.880 --> 00:33:29.940
that definitely builds a very strong case.

513
00:33:30.460 --> 00:33:33.060
But in science, usually how paradigms change

514
00:33:33.060 --> 00:33:35.860
is when somebody makes a really weird prediction

515
00:33:36.600 --> 00:33:39.080
and then they actually go ahead and test it.

516
00:33:39.160 --> 00:33:40.900
And it turns out like, yeah, the prediction is correct.

517
00:33:41.060 --> 00:33:41.140
Yes.

518
00:33:41.340 --> 00:33:43.940
And that's one of the cases of, for example,

519
00:33:44.020 --> 00:33:46.520
putting people in fMRIs with MDMA

520
00:33:47.040 --> 00:33:49.700
and then computing the consonants of the brain harmonics.

521
00:33:50.320 --> 00:33:51.900
There's no other theory that is predicting

522
00:33:51.900 --> 00:33:54.200
that would have anything to do with pleasure and pain.

523
00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:56.780
So that's kind of like the case of really weird,

524
00:33:56.860 --> 00:33:58.060
really weird prediction,

525
00:33:58.300 --> 00:34:00.320
very high information if it turns out true.

526
00:34:01.360 --> 00:34:03.720
That said, we are not completely constrained by that.

527
00:34:03.880 --> 00:34:06.860
I mean, the research we're aggregating currently,

528
00:34:07.080 --> 00:34:09.160
it is building up the case over time.

529
00:34:09.880 --> 00:34:12.140
But of course, we would love to just like, you know,

530
00:34:12.160 --> 00:34:14.580
jump to the, cut to the chase

531
00:34:14.580 --> 00:34:17.020
and see what happens in there.

532
00:34:17.120 --> 00:34:17.520
Test hypothesis.

533
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:18.260
Yes.

534
00:34:18.280 --> 00:34:19.620
Yeah, right away as soon as possible.

535
00:34:19.720 --> 00:34:23.480
Yeah, I could maybe if you go to maybe the last slide.

536
00:34:23.900 --> 00:34:24.880
The very last one?

537
00:34:25.060 --> 00:34:28.580
Yeah, just to kind of give you like an example

538
00:34:28.580 --> 00:34:33.700
of what we consider a moderate evidence

539
00:34:34.280 --> 00:34:36.400
for the symmetry theory of valence.

540
00:34:37.540 --> 00:34:39.700
It's moderate because it's through EEG.

541
00:34:39.940 --> 00:34:43.540
And of course, like there's not a really great theory

542
00:34:43.540 --> 00:34:44.720
of what EEG is measuring.

543
00:34:45.620 --> 00:34:47.380
But if you interpret it through the light

544
00:34:47.380 --> 00:34:48.700
of connecting harmonics,

545
00:34:49.720 --> 00:34:50.000
it makes a lot of sense.

546
00:34:50.260 --> 00:34:55.700
So what this is showing is, okay,

547
00:34:55.780 --> 00:34:57.880
so like they basically took EEG recordings,

548
00:34:58.040 --> 00:35:00.000
high quality EEG recordings of a

549
00:35:00.180 --> 00:35:10.340
person on 5-MeO DMT, which is described as one of the most intense, but also most blissful and terrifying states of consciousness.

550
00:35:10.620 --> 00:35:12.720
But basically very, very, very high valence.

551
00:35:12.900 --> 00:35:13.680
God molecule.

552
00:35:14.660 --> 00:35:18.940
Yeah, basically people rate it as like 10 out of 10 in the dimension of significance.

553
00:35:19.340 --> 00:35:21.000
As in it feels very significant.

554
00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:27.640
So, clearly, if there's like a signature of valence, you would expect to see it on 5-MeO DMT.

555
00:35:28.140 --> 00:35:37.600
And what this research shows is that if you take the EEG signatures of a person on 5-MeO DMT and you filter by the gamma band,

556
00:35:37.860 --> 00:35:44.280
and the gamma is usually associated with heightened states of consciousness like orgasm, basically high arousal, high energy states.

557
00:35:45.240 --> 00:35:48.060
Once you filter the EEG through the gamma band,

558
00:35:48.200 --> 00:35:50.980
and you start seeing the phase growth,

559
00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:53.180
the phase correlation between the different channels,

560
00:35:53.920 --> 00:35:56.540
you will see that on 5-MeO DMT it just maxes out.

561
00:35:56.760 --> 00:36:00.400
Basically all the channels are in phase coherence.

562
00:36:00.700 --> 00:36:05.280
In some sense, you can almost think of it as like there's this 40 Hz vibration,

563
00:36:06.120 --> 00:36:09.320
electromagnetic vibration throughout the entire brain in synchrony.

564
00:36:09.940 --> 00:36:15.400
And like why would that be associated with a sense of profound sense of significance

565
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:19.860
if synchrony and symmetry didn't have anything to do with valence?

566
00:36:20.240 --> 00:36:20.760
Um,

567
00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:24.300
you could probably round it up with some other theories, potentially.

568
00:36:24.880 --> 00:36:28.760
And that's why this is not necessarily kind of the silver bullet.

569
00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:31.580
But we consider it like, yeah, a moderate piece of evidence.

570
00:36:31.780 --> 00:36:35.240
And if we assemble enough of these, I think the case is going to be pretty strong.

571
00:36:37.620 --> 00:36:40.020
And yeah, back on the funding angle,

572
00:36:40.220 --> 00:36:49.020
it's this question of finding people who are very comfortable with weird ideas.

573
00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:57.440
Potentially incredibly transformative ideas that have a solid rationale,

574
00:36:57.680 --> 00:37:02.780
but are sort of outside the Overton window of what generally gets funded.

575
00:37:03.140 --> 00:37:07.280
So we're always on the lookout for sort of high quality donors.

576
00:37:07.580 --> 00:37:08.400
This is complicated.

577
00:37:09.200 --> 00:37:11.740
What you're describing is extremely complicated.

578
00:37:11.980 --> 00:37:15.320
And yeah, to be able to take a high quality EEG recording

579
00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:18.020
and then to be able to just analyze the gamma,

580
00:37:18.140 --> 00:37:20.000
and then to be able to take in,

581
00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:23.420
and then to be able to take in the analysis of the hyper symmetry of,

582
00:37:23.940 --> 00:37:27.460
it was a 10 on this, on impact or what was it?

583
00:37:27.480 --> 00:37:28.840
Significance. Sense of significance.

584
00:37:29.020 --> 00:37:30.240
Sense of significance, yeah, yeah.

585
00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:33.780
Yeah, it's definitely true for a lot of the experiences.

586
00:37:34.100 --> 00:37:36.420
Romeo, you're trying to go the whole show without talking.

587
00:37:36.420 --> 00:37:42.040
i know any any

588
00:37:42.040 --> 00:37:42.840
Any inputs?

589
00:37:47.300 --> 00:37:48.900
I mean, they're all doing such a great job.

590
00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:52.800
So I don't see the need to mess with perfection.

591
00:37:56.840 --> 00:38:01.700
Okay, and a couple other assets that I think we want to show.

592
00:38:01.860 --> 00:38:04.720
Can we show the one right after the cymatics, Ronnie?

593
00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:07.040
The one like a couple assets back,

594
00:38:07.120 --> 00:38:10.520
just a couple of the very first white one in that row, in the row.

595
00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:11.900
Yep, yep, that one, yep.

596
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:12.220
Yeah.

597
00:38:12.280 --> 00:38:14.060
So I just want to show these quick.

598
00:38:14.180 --> 00:38:15.480
Yeah, I think this is important.

599
00:38:15.540 --> 00:38:18.740
This is kind of like the catalog of the state space of consciousness.

600
00:38:18.900 --> 00:38:21.540
You can be extremely neutral, you can be extremely...

601
00:38:21.540 --> 00:38:25.220
This would be basically cataloging, I mean, how we were describing,

602
00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:28.600
you know, take the color state space, right?

603
00:38:28.660 --> 00:38:30.100
Or take like the flavor state space.

604
00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:34.340
This would be basically getting at the root of the emotional state space.

605
00:38:34.660 --> 00:38:36.800
So this is when you'd be tasting something that's like really,

606
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:40.500
I don't know, spicy, I don't know, like, ah, like what would be...

607
00:38:40.500 --> 00:38:41.220
Well, yeah, sure.

608
00:38:41.220 --> 00:38:42.100
Hurting you a little bit?

609
00:38:42.120 --> 00:38:44.060
Yeah, sure, like pain, pain, for example.

610
00:38:44.240 --> 00:38:48.520
Like when people eat that hot sauce that like makes them cry.

611
00:38:48.900 --> 00:38:49.900
Yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure.

612
00:38:49.940 --> 00:38:51.840
Or physical pain, or emotional pain.

613
00:38:52.220 --> 00:38:54.480
Basically, just like highly negative valence.

614
00:38:55.560 --> 00:38:57.760
Well, actually, yeah, what this is...

615
00:38:57.760 --> 00:38:58.560
Suffering, yes, okay.

616
00:38:58.640 --> 00:39:02.600
Suffering, what this is describing is kind of like a way of visualizing

617
00:39:02.600 --> 00:39:04.280
the dissonance between harmonics.

618
00:39:04.840 --> 00:39:05.900
Okay, so this is dissonance.

619
00:39:06.540 --> 00:39:07.100
These are each...

620
00:39:07.100 --> 00:39:07.400
Because it's suffering.

621
00:39:08.100 --> 00:39:10.080
Right, these are each different harmonics.

622
00:39:10.200 --> 00:39:12.120
And if you want to explain the...

623
00:39:12.120 --> 00:39:16.500
Sure, harmonics, the size of the bubble is kind of like the amplitude,

624
00:39:16.620 --> 00:39:18.600
how much energy each of these harmonics has.

625
00:39:18.720 --> 00:39:18.880
Okay.

626
00:39:18.900 --> 00:39:22.880
And then the arrows are basically whether they're like mutually consonant

627
00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:24.580
or dissonant with each other.

628
00:39:25.060 --> 00:39:28.140
And, I mean, in music, when you're analyzing the dissonance

629
00:39:28.140 --> 00:39:31.340
of like simple instruments being put together, basically what you do

630
00:39:31.340 --> 00:39:36.500
is you compute the pairwise dissonance of all the pure tones in the spectrum,

631
00:39:36.620 --> 00:39:39.720
and that gives you kind of the global dissonance score,

632
00:39:39.940 --> 00:39:44.420
which basically, yeah, can account for like subjective ratings of dissonance.

633
00:39:44.940 --> 00:39:48.880
Here is kind of like taking the same idea but applying it to brain harmonics.

634
00:39:48.900 --> 00:39:52.240
So you take like for every pair of brain harmonics,

635
00:39:52.260 --> 00:39:53.900
you see whether they're like dissonant or consonant.

636
00:39:54.300 --> 00:39:56.460
You aggregate all the dissonance,

637
00:39:56.580 --> 00:39:59.880
and that would be kind of a general measure of how bad

638
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:00.700
the experience feels.

639
00:40:01.260 --> 00:40:05.200
Then you add up all the consonants and that's kind of a general measure of how good it feels.

640
00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:10.000
Anyhow, that's what our theory is predicting specifically.

641
00:40:10.560 --> 00:40:16.940
It gives you, so this is adding up all the pairwise dissonance relations, this is the

642
00:40:16.940 --> 00:40:22.080
pairwise constants relations, pairwise noise relations, and it gives you a position in

643
00:40:22.080 --> 00:40:24.000
a valence space, essentially.

644
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:30.440
Okay, and one more time, for one more time again, give that bit again with the, yeah.

645
00:40:30.660 --> 00:40:38.020
Yeah, yeah, so the red is adding up all the pairwise dissonance relationships between

646
00:40:38.020 --> 00:40:39.580
these natural brain harmonics.

647
00:40:39.640 --> 00:40:42.520
And you just aggregate them, add them up.

648
00:40:42.660 --> 00:40:46.540
And then the blue is the pairwise constants relation.

649
00:40:47.060 --> 00:40:50.020
And then this is the pairwise noise relationships.

650
00:40:50.100 --> 00:40:50.960
The gray ones, okay.

651
00:40:51.080 --> 00:40:51.680
All right.

652
00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:58.000
So, if you sort of add them up, it gives you a position on this state space.

653
00:40:58.220 --> 00:40:59.240
State space, okay.

654
00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:02.920
And yeah, for, just for clarity, that triangle, right, so when people say like,

655
00:41:03.000 --> 00:41:06.160
are you feeling good or bad, oftentimes people say like, I don't know.

656
00:41:07.120 --> 00:41:13.880
And the reason why is because usually typical emotions, typical emotional states are mixed.

657
00:41:14.360 --> 00:41:19.880
You have, for example, you're at a concert, you're enjoying the music and you're friends,

658
00:41:20.020 --> 00:41:23.520
but then like the speakers are not really good, and then like you also need to go pee,

659
00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:27.880
and then you're kind of drunk, and like, okay, this is very complicated mixed state.

660
00:41:28.200 --> 00:41:30.080
So that would be kind of like in the middle, right?

661
00:41:30.160 --> 00:41:34.200
It has like some positive valence components, some negative, and some neutral.

662
00:41:35.560 --> 00:41:40.220
And that's why, yeah, to an extent like self-report is pretty difficult because it's so mixed

663
00:41:40.220 --> 00:41:40.800
usually.

664
00:41:41.300 --> 00:41:41.580
Okay.

665
00:41:41.680 --> 00:41:44.680
Because there's all these pair, what do you call them, pair?

666
00:41:45.020 --> 00:41:45.740
Pairwise relationships.

667
00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:48.240
Okay.

668
00:41:48.400 --> 00:41:52.580
And they're all kind of pulling a little bit on the neutral or on the pleasure or on the

669
00:41:52.580 --> 00:41:52.980
dissonance.

670
00:41:53.100 --> 00:41:53.500
Exactly.

671
00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:54.160
Okay.

672
00:41:54.820 --> 00:41:58.740
Yeah, I think a way to relate this to the state space of color again, because I think

673
00:41:58.740 --> 00:42:02.620
that's one that's like pretty well understood by people, is one way to create colors is

674
00:42:02.620 --> 00:42:04.240
to create certain RGB values.

675
00:42:04.900 --> 00:42:09.320
And so you sort of have like the red that's on a scale from zero to 255, green scale from

676
00:42:09.320 --> 00:42:11.860
zero to 255, blue scale from zero to 255.

677
00:42:12.040 --> 00:42:16.700
And then you sort of mix different values of R, G, and B to get a certain color as an

678
00:42:16.700 --> 00:42:16.900
output.

679
00:42:17.160 --> 00:42:21.500
I think the metaphor kind of works here too, where you have these three values of constants,

680
00:42:21.640 --> 00:42:22.380
dissonance, and noise.

681
00:42:22.580 --> 00:42:22.940
Yeah.

682
00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:26.420
And then you get a certain, not color, but a certain emotional state.

683
00:42:26.960 --> 00:42:31.180
And so I think that's kind of a way to, an okay metaphor for how we state.

684
00:42:31.180 --> 00:42:31.880
Yeah, that's a good one.

685
00:42:31.940 --> 00:42:32.840
I like that one a lot.

686
00:42:33.140 --> 00:42:33.460
Yeah.

687
00:42:33.860 --> 00:42:35.840
That's one that people I think are really familiar with.

688
00:42:35.960 --> 00:42:36.060
Yeah.

689
00:42:36.140 --> 00:42:37.080
Yeah, people know about color.

690
00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:38.540
That was a pretty good one, yeah.

691
00:42:39.340 --> 00:42:39.980
Okay, excellent.

692
00:42:41.160 --> 00:42:43.940
And let's wrap on this point.

693
00:42:44.080 --> 00:42:44.900
I want to bring this up.

694
00:42:45.040 --> 00:42:51.200
So during the last talk that I went to that you guys were hosting, I really enjoyed this,

695
00:42:51.260 --> 00:42:53.980
that a lot of people are, you know, they're not really interested in color.

696
00:42:54.000 --> 00:43:00.420
They're either kind of stuck in their own bodies, identifying with their own selves

697
00:43:00.420 --> 00:43:02.220
and nothing really outside of themselves.

698
00:43:02.860 --> 00:43:07.300
Some people try and understand their whole timeline all the way back to their past when

699
00:43:07.300 --> 00:43:09.800
they were born, all the way to their future where they're trying to go.

700
00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:11.720
So they kind of get it on their whole timeline scale.

701
00:43:12.320 --> 00:43:21.640
And then this, and also where the world is at as well in those periods of years as well.

702
00:43:21.720 --> 00:43:23.980
So from like, if you're born in 2000 until 2000, you're born in 2000.

703
00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:24.260
You're born in 2000, 80.

704
00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:32.280
So that chunk of time versus this idea of like all that is or infinity or love or infinite

705
00:43:32.280 --> 00:43:32.820
consciousness.

706
00:43:33.020 --> 00:43:35.720
There's so many ways to describe this, God, et cetera, source.

707
00:43:36.200 --> 00:43:43.820
And when one potentially taps into things like the supersymmetrical states that they

708
00:43:43.820 --> 00:43:50.560
may experience that, they may experience dives into all that is.

709
00:43:50.740 --> 00:43:53.240
And so some people can trigger that just through breath.

710
00:43:54.520 --> 00:43:57.480
And just by expanding themselves out as vast as the universe.

711
00:43:57.640 --> 00:43:59.940
And I think that's a very beautiful way to get there.

712
00:44:00.140 --> 00:44:05.020
And so this sounds, it sounds great to be able to ebb and flow between all three of

713
00:44:05.020 --> 00:44:05.200
those.

714
00:44:05.260 --> 00:44:08.760
And that's something that I think was really beautifully said by you.

715
00:44:09.180 --> 00:44:11.940
Go ahead and explain that more to us.

716
00:44:12.060 --> 00:44:12.940
I like that a lot.

717
00:44:13.180 --> 00:44:13.620
Yeah.

718
00:44:13.640 --> 00:44:18.880
I mean, we do seem to kind of like come into this world with implicit views of who we are,

719
00:44:19.400 --> 00:44:21.080
but they're like given by evolution.

720
00:44:21.340 --> 00:44:22.600
They're not necessarily true.

721
00:44:22.640 --> 00:44:23.900
They're just pragmatically useful.

722
00:44:23.900 --> 00:44:23.980
Yeah.

723
00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:28.380
I mean, this sense of you start existing when you're born, you stop existing when you die

724
00:44:28.380 --> 00:44:30.680
is usually an unexamined assumption.

725
00:44:31.520 --> 00:44:35.120
Of course, people try to extend it and say, well, maybe you don't die really.

726
00:44:35.240 --> 00:44:37.660
You continue to exist as a soul after you die.

727
00:44:37.780 --> 00:44:39.320
Or maybe there was reincarnation.

728
00:44:39.900 --> 00:44:42.600
Most people still think of it as kind of just a single line.

729
00:44:43.140 --> 00:44:45.880
And you're in a sense like separate from the rest of the universe.

730
00:44:46.500 --> 00:44:48.600
There's like alternative views that can be justified.

731
00:44:48.820 --> 00:44:53.480
There's this view called empty individualism where you're just like this moment of experience.

732
00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:56.680
And in a moment, in a second, you're going to be a different entity.

733
00:44:57.100 --> 00:45:00.000
Or rather a different entity will inhabit your body because you were just that

734
00:45:00.040 --> 00:45:04.100
slice. Wow. ANDRES BOROVSKY- And

735
00:45:04.140 --> 00:45:20.440
you can describe them also as states of consciousness.

736
00:45:21.420 --> 00:45:26.500
You can definitely, in some states of very neutral experience, you can just feel that

737
00:45:28.300 --> 00:45:33.440
a very classical way of feeling that we are all one consciousness is in psychedelics and

738
00:45:33.440 --> 00:45:33.700
meditation.

739
00:45:34.160 --> 00:45:36.760
I mean, 5-MEO is a classic example of people.

740
00:45:37.080 --> 00:45:40.060
It really creates the feeling that you're all consciousness.

741
00:45:40.860 --> 00:45:45.200
And there's like this interplay between the information content of the experience and

742
00:45:45.200 --> 00:45:47.820
how cleanly defined you are.

743
00:45:48.100 --> 00:45:53.720
So, like 5-MEO DMT or any of these like super symmetrical states, it's so symmetrical,

744
00:45:53.840 --> 00:45:56.440
so invariant, it contains close to no information.

745
00:45:58.000 --> 00:46:00.540
There's just not enough information to know who you are.

746
00:46:00.660 --> 00:46:05.880
So, you identify with the light of consciousness or the void or universal mind.

747
00:46:06.780 --> 00:46:13.440
I think like, yeah, that kind of state and especially if you can like logically and precisely

748
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:18.920
shift between those, that's going to be really important for like global coordination where

749
00:46:18.920 --> 00:46:23.660
you're going to have like CEOs of companies or leaders of different countries identify

750
00:46:23.660 --> 00:46:27.980
with consciousness rather than with, you know, their cultural background or who they are.

751
00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:32.460
Then, yeah, I think like they can collaborate to basically raise the baseline of everybody.

752
00:46:33.280 --> 00:46:34.140
It's a possibility.

753
00:46:34.460 --> 00:46:34.900
Yeah.

754
00:46:35.140 --> 00:46:39.880
Damn, that's that bad section right there is a whole another conversation in itself.

755
00:46:40.220 --> 00:46:40.820
All right.

756
00:46:40.860 --> 00:46:47.780
So, for those that were watching, we would love for you to give us your thoughts in the

757
00:46:47.780 --> 00:46:48.940
comments below on the episode.

758
00:46:49.040 --> 00:46:49.900
Let us know what you're thinking.

759
00:46:50.240 --> 00:46:55.560
Check out the links in the bio to the Quality Research Institute's website as well as the

760
00:46:55.560 --> 00:46:57.320
other resources that you find in the links below.

761
00:46:57.440 --> 00:46:57.980
All the links are in the bio.

762
00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:02.000
Also, support the artists, the entrepreneurs, the organizations around the world that you

763
00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:02.500
believe in.

764
00:47:02.520 --> 00:47:03.000
Support them.

765
00:47:03.060 --> 00:47:03.540
Help them grow.

766
00:47:03.620 --> 00:47:04.880
Support Quality Research Institute.

767
00:47:04.980 --> 00:47:09.200
Help them get funding for the research that they need to get done.

768
00:47:09.340 --> 00:47:10.380
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769
00:47:10.380 --> 00:47:12.820
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770
00:47:12.880 --> 00:47:13.360
Support us.

771
00:47:13.380 --> 00:47:13.900
Help us grow.

772
00:47:14.200 --> 00:47:17.640
And share more content about this type of stuff with your friends, your families, coworkers,

773
00:47:17.840 --> 00:47:20.640
people online on social media about cataloging and navigating consciousness.

774
00:47:21.100 --> 00:47:22.680
Really get talking more about this.

775
00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:24.020
And go and build the future, everyone.

776
00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:25.640
Manifest your dreams into the world.

777
00:47:25.700 --> 00:47:26.780
Thank you so much for tuning in.

778
00:47:26.860 --> 00:47:27.800
We will see you soon.

779
00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:29.380
Peace.

780
00:47:29.860 --> 00:47:30.340
Woo.